Mayor Pete Builds Bridges
Here's how Buttigieg can build back better bridges.
Summary: Buttigieg and other Dems need to re-learn how to listen, laugh, and learn.
Last week, Pete Buttigieg appeared on the Flagrant podcast. Hosted by comedians Andrew Schultz and Akaash Singh, the podcast is a show for the bros.(1)
I was quite intrigued upon hearing about the podcast and quite encouraged upon listening to it! That said, I have some notes for the 2028 presidential hopeful.(2)
Thus, to help identify and fix Democrat’s ongoing communications problems, here are my key takeaways from the show on how Mayor Pete (and other Dems) can do better.
Highlights
Here are a few memorable moments from the podcast:
Mayor Pete tells his just-in-case letter story, which is personal and vulnerable and ties his identity as a gay man with his military service because that’s his truth.
Mayor Pete talks about a convo with a lady who met his “friend” a.k.a. his now-husband as an example of how Dem’s don’t need to correct people on everything.
The Flagrant bros give Mayor Pete helpful feedback, which Dem’s should take, on the need for Dem’s to provide solutions and stop shaming the American people.
Don’ts for Dems
1. Don’t take so long to connect.
1 hour and 45 minutes in. That’s where I’d recommend listeners short on time (or attention span) begin the show. That’s where it gets interesting.
That’s where Mayor Pete shines and truly begins connecting with the bros.(3) That is to say I much preferred the latter half of the podcast.
Throughout the first half, Buttigieg remains aloof. He doesn’t seem to validate or take seriously the bros’ points and perspectives, nor does he show how their opinions actually align with his, despite there being ample opportunity to do so.
From what I could tell, for this part of the show, he doesn’t make the bros— his immediate audience— feel heard.(4)
2. Don’t assume you know everything.
In my assessment, Buttigieg’s performance (at least the first part of it) lacked humility and curiosity about his interviewers’ opinions. From watching the show, as far as I’m aware, Mayor Pete has nothing to learn from the Flagrant bros.(5)
To paraphrase one comment I read, Mayor Pete thinks he’s the smartest in the room, and we can tell. Even if not everyone came away with that impression, it’s not a good look, nor is it a successful political persuasion strategy.(6)
3. Don’t take yourself too seriously, especially on a comedy podcast.
During the first hour and a half, Buttigieg seems stiff and not at-home on the show.(7)
He was there, but he didn’t act like he belonged there.(8) I’d largely attribute this to him taking himself and perhaps the conversation a bit too seriously.
For most of the show, Mayor Pete doesn’t laugh at the jokes of the podcast’s comedian hosts. At one point, Shultz tries to set up a joke by asking Buttigieg a question, to which Buttigieg provides a too-long answer, thereby messing up the joke.(9)
My gripe with this moment isn’t with his initial answer so much as it is with Buttigieg’s response or seemingly lack thereof when Shultz’ bros point out his attempted joke.
That was a funny, humanizing moment for Shultz, one which most people can relate to, especially since it was sort of self-deprecating.(10)
Mayor Pete could’ve been more responsive in that moment to the bros. He could’ve been in on the joke and made fun of himself. To me, that would’ve made him more personable and likable.
Do’s for Dems
1. Listen: Voters are telling you exactly what they want.
Buttigieg may want to work on his active listening skills.(11)
Somewhere in the middle of the pod, Schultz pointedly tells Buttigieg, “There's a lot of Americans at the end of their hope."(12)
Schultz, who is to my knowledge not a Democrat, goes on to tell Mayor Pete exactly what Mayor Pete and the Democratic Party need to hear, what they’re not doing well— giving the people a reason to hope. Schultz explains that the American people are “very disillusioned and simply wanting things that they want isn’t enough.”
He’s 100% right on this. Buttigieg and all Dems should play that part on repeat. Here, let me help: Many Americans are at the end of their hope, and simply wanting the things that they want isn’t enough.
2. Learn: Americans can and will tell you what they need.
No Democrat nor any one person has a monopoly on knowledge.(13)
Yet, Buttigieg had many good points and lines throughout the podcast including his critique of the Democrat’s fondness for telling Americans they’re “voting against their own interests.”
To expand on that point, Democrats ought to learn what the American people want from the American people— by opening up their ears and listening to them!
3. Laugh: Yes, even at the gay jokes.
One piece of the dynamic on the podcast I’ve yet to elaborate on is that Pete Buttigieg, a gay man, was speaking to a room of, to my knowledge, straight men, all of whom for that matter seem to value and prioritize asserting their masculinity.
Undoubtedly and understandably, this affected Buttigieg’s comfort level on the show, yet I believe, with practice, he can push through the discomfort a bit more and a bit faster.
If I were advising Mayor Pete, I’d encourage him to embrace and engage in the jokes, including the gay jokes. Ideally, he’d crack a few jokes himself. You can do it, Mayor Pete! We believe in you.(14)
4. Share your story: Be Personal and Specific.
My preference for the latter half of the podcast is largely due to the change in tone I perceived once the conversation moved away from dry policy discussions (or lectures, as some may call it) to more personal, relatable matters. Storytelling— it’s human nature. We all love a good story, don’t we!
When Mayor Pete talked about his experience coming out, specifically when he shared about the just-in-case letter he wrote and about the conversation he had with a woman in his community who mentioned seeing his “friend” a.k.a. his now husband, that was powerful stuff!
That’s what the people want Mayor Pete! Won’t you give it to us?
5. Connect: The bros want to connect with the Dems.
One major takeaway that I was struck by was how much Shultz, Singh, and their bros seemed to really want to connect with and find common cause with Mayor Pete.(13) They want to connect, so allow them to do so, please.
6. Remember: MAGA bros — they’re just like us!
When it comes to connecting with MAGA voters and MAGA-adjacent voters, it’s not that hard, folks!
However we may feel about their voting behavior, MAGA voters are just like us, which is to say they’re just normal Americans.(15) Failure to recognize this reality spells doom for democrats in this country and beyond.
Buttigieg Gives Hope to America
Overall, I do think Pete Buttigieg did well on the Flagrant podcast. He certainly had a net positive impact.
He’s making strides to break through and bridge the political divide.(15)
He spoke persuasively, eloquently, and with clarity and conviction at several points— particularly in the back half of the podcast.(16)
He did good for the country, the party, and of course by extension, for the American people. He has room to grow and I look forward to seeing him do so.
Mayor Pete for the win!
Obligatory Disclaimer: all views expressed here are my own personal views and do not represent the views of my employer nor those of the U.S. government.
Kudos and thanks to Mayor Pete and the Flagrant podcast bros for the solid political discourse!
Thank you for reading!
Please share this with an American who may need some hope and/or send it to the Flagrant podcast and ask them to invite me on!
Side Notes, End Notes, & Tangents
(Summary) To my subscribers: thank you for your continued support and please accept my apologies for the delayed newsletter! I am working on my consistency and appreciate your patience.
(1) It can perhaps be considered a MAGA-adjacent podcast, though I’m not sure the hosts would describe it that way. They had two other co-hosts/guests on the show whose names were not listed in the description. Find the podcast episode here:
(2) The podcast hosts take it as a given that Buttigieg, who is the former Secretary of Transportation under Biden as well as a veteran, polyglot, and former mayor of South Bend Indiana, will run for president again. Buttigieg doesn’t object and why should he— we stan the unapologetic ambition, Pete— fix our country, please!
(3) Until then, at least for me, the conversation felt forced and boring. In fairness, this may be due to my brain being overly saturated with the policy discussions and talking points Buttigieg nonetheless skillfully deploys.
(4) One can argue, “he’s doing his best and better than most Democrats,” which is true, yet I’d caution Dems not to be so easily pleased. To be sure, his discussion with the Flagrant bros here was far better than Newsom’s recent publicity stunts.
(5) which is another missed opportunity!
(5a) As a bullet point under this tip, I’d advise Buttigieg and other Dems: don’t expect praise for simply doing your job. At a few points during the show, it seemed like Buttigieg wanted a pat on the back for the act of doing his job as Sec of Transportation. The reality is the American people aren’t inclined to give it to him, nor the Biden admin, nor any politician right now. The American people and I are happy to give constructive, critical notes though :)
(5b) More broadly, a harrowing tendency I’ve noticed among Democrats, especially high-profile members of the Biden admin, is this desire for praise and gratitude for simply doing their jobs. This trait is off-putting and unlikable, and while I don’t think Buttigieg shows it too often, it’s one subtle way he could distance himself from, I’ll just say it, the POTUS and VPOTUS he served under. He would be wise to do this, especially as showing some more humility would set him apart from the current standard bearers of the GOP as well.
(6) During the first half of the show, I fear he acts as though he’s teaching them; that’s not a great dynamic if our goal is to win. To quote Maya Angelou, “People will forget what you said. People forget what you did. But people will not forget how you made them feel.” Here’s the thing, making people feel stupid in your presence does not make them want to vote for you.
(7) That’s okay and understandable. Eventually, he does warm up. I just wish it didn’t take him so long to do so. Moreover, there are ways Mayor Pete and his comms team (I’m assuming he has one) can prevent or at least mitigate his discomfort, which I’m sure they may already be working on.
(8) He can do so more than he did. As a leader, it’s his job to set the tone of a conversation and to make everyone feel comfortable and at ease. We can cast blame on Shultz or Singh or whomever else for Buttigieg’s discomfort, but if he wants to be president, he can and ought to engage with the people he wants to govern with more openness (yes, yes, easier said than done). After all, the job he’s running for requires far more of him than basic people skills, and he has more than basic people skills.
(9) To be clear, I relate very much to his desire to inject nuance and give a thoughtful, thought-through answer and his tendency to be long-winded at times. It’s such a struggle to just go with the joke, but maybe sometimes we ought to try.
(10) Note: we can, as I’ve heard a few people do, dismiss this point and simply make fun of the Flagrant bros. If we do that, we will keep losing.
(11) This is a problem for Democrats going back to the 2016 Clinton campaign’s failed “listening tour” that HRC was supposedly going to go on. Did she ever? I heard nothing of it.
(12) an insightful and true statement, which was the immediate catalyst for me to write this piece.
(12a) Note: this was one of Andrew Schultz better moments, imo, and he certainly has had less-than-stellar ones. One struggles to forget his insistence that his unfunny jokes about black women being violent were somehow funny. Still, we all mess up, not all jokes land, and we ought not ostracize one another for our worst moments.
(13) Hint: if we did, we may not have lost in 2024.
(14) I’d imagine, given that he is gay, he’d have more relevant, funny jokes to tell about gay people. I’m reminded of an interesting Contrapoints video on this topic, though I can’t remember which atm.
(15) To call it as I see it, the Flagrant bros thawed the ice at least as much or more than Buttigieg did. Comparisons aside, it was a helpful reminder that it can be quite easy to talk to people whom we disagree with or who are supposedly on the other side of the proverbial aisle.
(16) If we are to win, managing to hold a conversation with the bros for a while cannot be the standard.
(16a) I promise, they’re not another species. They’re human, just like us. I plan to write more on this topic— stay tuned.
(17) He’s certainly one to watch during the next nomination cycle, and before. Where most Democratic leaders seem utterly lost on how to rouse the American spirit— which is not for lack of effort on their part— Buttigieg seems to stand out, relatively speaking, for his clarity and consistency. He can do much better though!
(17a) Something Dems will need to grapple with: the Democratic Party’s message is muddled because most of its leading messengers are conflict-allergic elites whose thoughts seem confused, muddled, and cognitively dissonant. Thus, it would seem, they cannot form a coherent, popular message as they are now.
(18) We can only hope people watch it all the way through!
Interesting read!